VW Type 3 in Austalia

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14 Mär 2019 02:40 #11110 von Steve
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Hello,
I'm a mechanic & business owner, 13 years, Mackellar Service Centre, in Dee Why, Sydney Australia. We (1 Mechanic & myself) work on all makes & models of vehicle. We specialise in VW & are the last ones in this fairly big area working on air cooled all the time. I would estimate 70-80% of our work, lots of Kombi's. We are not far from the famous Manly Beach. So this area is big on coastal surf culture. These Kombi's are now worth a lot of money & people are spending a lot restoring them. We don't do restorations or body work.

The previous owner (16 years here) of the business was an older German fellow who did his time in the the VW Factory in Germany. I have a lot of his training material, manuals etc. His son took over the business & was here for 4 years (ran it down a bit) before I bought it from him.
So the business with its name has been here 30 years now. We have bought it back to having a very good reputation.

I myself am a surfer & camping type person. I have a T3 Syncro, full camper, daily driver (weekend escape vehicle), a 76 T2 panel van, 2L carb for fun, a T3 syncro Caravelle (pretty rare I think) not registered (stored at the moment) the owner insisted I buy it off him & made the price so I could not refuse.
I also have a 75 T2 with Leyland P76 V8, but it's in pieces & a long way from seeing the road (if it ever does).

I am 58, a bit of a perfectionist ( it kills me sometimes ) but I like to know, 1. how something works 2. see how it's not working 3. get it back to original & working again. Which is how I ended up finding your site.

I ended up at your site chasing information for a Type 3, TLE injection system.
The vehicle was newly purchase by a gentleman about 2 months prior, was running ok. Its a great looking, very original fastback. He wanted us to do an inspection on it, check a few things out. One of which was it had a problem of rough idle, almost stalling had developed since owning it.
A quick look over & run on scope found ignition leads not pushed into cap properly, not connected on one or 2 spark plugs firmly. We rectified these things, compression test (ok - not great) & fitted new plugs, replace the ignition points because the spring in them was very heavy. It ran great. We went through the other items he listed & drove it a number of times & it was good", so we didn't look any deeper at the run fault. The owner took the vehicle & said it ran great for about 2-3 days, before it started doing the same thing again.

I got more involved with it this time around. The problem seemed more like an ignition cut out or injection cut out problem, than a misfire.
An exhaust check found it running at 20;1 A/F ratio. We check fuel pressure & flow good. 29-30 psi.
I figure at this point that the new spark plugs had covered up the fault & were firing the very lean mixture until they settled in.
With the air cleaner out of the way, the vehicle hot, idling & having the rough idle, I sprayed small bursts of carby clean at the throttle body intake & she smoothed out perfectly. I traced air leaks to the plenum/intake manifold runner connector hoses. Removing one side hoses I found them in relatively good (not perished) condition, just hard & leaking at the ends. Fit clamps & improved the A/F ratio to 18:1. No leaks to the MAP sensor & it appeared to be OK.

I inspected & set the Throttle Position Switch to hunt with the air bypass hose disconnected.

Another VW guy comment about the injection points in the bottom of the distributor. I removed & checked them, clean the old grease of the internal cam, the rubbing blocks etc. Contact cleaner on the face of the points, reinstalled to find it would not start at all. I figured the cleaning off or old grease had caused an issue.

There is a massive amount of secondhand parts here built up from all who have run the place. I couldn't believe my luck to find another distributor in the pile.
I swapped out the fuel injection points & it started & ran beautiful, that was all I did. I drove the vehicle a number of times & was quite happy with it.
After work, I took it for a cruise for nearly 45 mins with no problems, then on coming back to the shop I noted it starting to have it's issue back again. It got gradually worse & i wondered if maybe that's why this distributor was removed originally. Perhaps it's points were worn as well.

I refitted the original points, confirmed no start. I removed the points, set the gap between the rubbing blocks at about 23mm as I saw on your site, reinstalled & it was now a runner again. Success at a small level. When it got hot, the problem of rough idle came back.

I have a scope, computer based but it has decided to give up on me. I have to get another lap top.

I decided to watch the problem & check each injector with a noid light individually. I found that when the engine glitches, No.1 & No.4 injector miss a beat or 2.
I pulled the distributor this morning, removed externals & ignition points breaker plate so that I could look inside & visually confirm points opening & closing. Pretty basic, but that's where I am at at this point in time. I am figuring that inj 1 & 4 are on their own bank. The distributor bushes are OK.
I will look for the correct gap when open & set this while the points are in situ. That is where I am at at this time.

I have had the ECU out of it's hiding spot & taken a look inside for solder joint problems, it appears ok for what I can see. I have not done the thorough pin out diagnosis that is listed.

To whom ever takes the time to read this, thank you very much for input you may have.

Cheers
Steve
Also know as
Rusty Kombi in some places.

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14 Mär 2019 09:59 #11117 von Volker
Volker antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Hi Steve,

I am afrraid that fuel injection TLE on Volkswagen T3 is not my expertise. What I dound out is that this seems to be a Motronic on 2.1 engine. That is why I am surprised to read of cams in foot of ignition distributor. That would be a D-Jetronic specialty. That is why I am confused now.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker

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14 Mär 2019 12:19 - 14 Mär 2019 12:20 #11120 von Obelix
Obelix antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Volker , wrong ship, in Australia the VW Typ 3 Fastback with D-Jetronic was called 1600 TLE...

Greets Christian
Letzte Änderung: 14 Mär 2019 12:20 von Obelix.
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14 Mär 2019 12:45 - 14 Mär 2019 12:53 #11121 von nordfisch
nordfisch antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
I think the confusion started when Steve mentioned the T3...

I was confused, too.

Now we know the thread is about a 'type 3', not about a 'T3' and can help...

Thank you, Christian

Regards
Norbert

@Steve: You adjusted the distance of 23,0 mm correctly. But the centering of the unit has to be correct, too.
I could send you a figure you can produce my tool using a lathe. Tell me your 'real' email-adress via PM and I send you the figure and the instruction.
Letzte Änderung: 14 Mär 2019 12:53 von nordfisch.
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14 Mär 2019 13:27 #11123 von Volker
Volker antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Okay,

now I got it. I thought of VW bus T3 . A type 3 1600 TLE is of course D-Jetronic. Well in that case you have 3 possibilities:
  1. Adjust cams if there is not too much wear
  2. Replace cams
  3. Find new trigger contacts (I should still have a dew of Volkswagen/Porsche type)

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker

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15 Mär 2019 05:27 #11126 von Steve
Steve antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Hi again, we pulled the points again. Reset exactly to 23mm. I think I was .3mm out. 23.32mm !!
Refitted & tested again. It is so far running great. I will test for a few days, cold starts & drive-ability.
Thank you very much for this site & the information. It helped immensely in getting to know the system & how it works. I wish I had of been able to get scope patterns, see the fault & then see the correction. I would have been able to post the results.
I zeroed in on the points for the obvious reason that the secondhand set temporarily fixed the problem. I also noticed while setting the timing (before getting the inj points right) & the vehicle was having it's glitching, that pushing on the distributor lightly, while the clamp was loose, the problem would go away, pull it the other way & it would get worse to point of the engine stalling out.
Thanks again to everyone. I read a lot of posts in the forums that where very helpful as well. I'll give the owner the details of the points & this site & he can look at getting another set of points as he says he will be keeping the vehicle a long time.

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15 Mär 2019 05:29 #11127 von Steve
Steve antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
No worries Volker. Sorry for the cross communication.
We could start on T3 2.1 system, I'm going to working on my own soon!

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15 Mär 2019 14:27 #11131 von nordfisch
nordfisch antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Hi Steve,
the trigger-points for VW are quite rare all over the world in NOS condition.
This type only fits VW and Porsche 914 - no other car brand.
A set is being offered here: https://www.ebay.de/itm/D-Jetronic-Kontaktgeber/264226086704?hash=item3d851a1f30:g:KckAAOSwkFZcPNTR
This IS the unit you need - not for Citroen as described.
It is the very first version installed in early VW Type III but fits the newer cars, too.
The price is o.k.

Shipment from Germany isn't expensive.
Your customer could contact the seller...

Regards
Norbert
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15 Mär 2019 17:47 #11132 von Volker
Volker antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Hi Steve,

as I wrote before I have several NOS trigger points for Volkswagen/Porsche, also for other cars and used ones for MB 8-cylinder. And I still have new cams from Günter's widow. Even nex axles to use them on 4 to 6 cylinder trigger porints.:cheer: :YES:

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker

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16 Mär 2019 00:25 #11133 von Steve
Steve antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Thanks, the vehicle is driving nicely. Bit slow idle cold.
I have sent all the links to this site & to the contacts link to the owner. I'll leave that with him to do purchasing.
If your tool is available I would like to buy one from you. That would be great.
If not I am happy if you send me the details & I will get someone to make one.

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16 Mär 2019 00:28 #11134 von Steve
Steve antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia
Thanks Volker,
Thanks, the vehicle is driving nicely. Bit slow idle cold.
I have sent all the links to this site & spoke with him this morning. I have forward the link Nordfisch sent for the ones on e-bay. I think he will buy 2 sets to have into the future. I'll leave that with him to do purchasing.
I am interested in the cam kit to repair the spare set I have. Does this come with the rivets for reassembly?
Thanks again to everyone for the help & input, it has been fantastic.

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16 Mär 2019 01:32 #11135 von nordfisch
nordfisch antwortete auf VW Type 3 in Austalia

Steve schrieb: Thanks Volker,
... I have forward the link Nordfisch sent for the ones on e-bay. I think he will buy 2 sets to have into the future. I'll leave that with him to do purchasing.
...

Hi, Steve - there is only one set for sale, and they are very rare... but Volker owns some, too, as he wrote. I by myself have only used ones left.

But the cams will almost not get worn at all and last for the lifetime of more than one flat-four-engine when they are regreased with ignition-points-grease every 10 kkm and the camshaft is kept free from rust.

Regards
Norbert

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